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#112013 - 03/19/08 11:42 AM
Georgia Giants, Should you buy them?
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Bruce Condello
Lunker
Registered: 08/01/04
Posts: 6699
Loc: Midwest
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I'm about to make a post that makes me sad. It's going to be quite negative, and maybe some of you will encourage me to pull the post, but I need to have my say.
After years of discussions regarding Georgia Giants, and many conflicting reports as to "what they are", and "how they perform", I decided that the scientist in me would have to order some.
I contacted Ken Holyoke at Ken's Fish Farm, and his assistant Deb. Deb was very cordial and offered to help me in what would eventually be an article in regards to Georgia Giants.
I made a rather sizable order, and anxiously awaited their arrival.
I started with a brand new lined pond that was specially set up with a feeder, and aerator and a continuous fresh water supply.
When the fish arrived they were in awful condition. Probably 30 percent of the Georgia Giants in the tank were stone dead, and the other 70 percent were piping at the surface. We did our best to revive the fish, and the drivers, to their credit, tried to find the best remaining fish for me.
Like an idiot, I paid them, thinking that at the very least they would replace the fish if they didn't make it.
Following are some pictures of the 25 fish that survived out of the several hundred Georgia Giants that were delivered.
As you can probably see my Georgia Giant project was essentially a total loss.
Now here's where it gets interesting. Deb King, who I really respect and I believe did her very best, left information for the people at Ken's Fish Farms that they would need to replace these fish. But when I called them for replacement of the Georgia Giant hybrids a few moments ago they went on an absolute tirade, accusing me of making the story up, accusing Deb King of making promises that she shouldn't have made, and here's the very worst part..
"They said they could replace the Georgia Giants if I provided proof of their demise, but that they could only UPS fish (one inchers I assume) and that there would be a 250 dollar "handling and shipping fee".
I almost couldn't believe my ears. Here I am, trying to be totally flexible on the size of fish, and when I'd take delivery, and they're practically yelling at me on the phone as the lady, (will remain unnamed), is getting angrier and angrier as the conversation went on.
I ask you, is this the way to run a business??
If I would have paid the 250 bucks for handling and shipping, and gotten 400 1 inch fish, it would have been more expensive than hybrid sunfish should be at full cost!
I'm still a little stunned that Ken Holyoke runs a business so lacking in customer service, but I guess that maybe I shouldn't be. The Georgia Giant came in poor condition, looked an awful lot like a standard green sunfish bluegill cross, and came with disease and highly stressed.
I'd like to make the point that Deb treated me great and I got the impression that Ken's Fish Farm was using her as a scapegoat for their own greedy practices. I can see why Deb left them. I'm sure that she eventually came to realize that there was something fishy about their business. I wish her luck and hold absolutely no hard feelings towards her.
I know, I know...I was stupid for taking a chance with them. Many of you warned me that something like this could happen. But I thought I'd try to end the debate once and for all.
_________________________
“To me, clowns aren't funny. In fact, they're kind of scary. I've wondered where this started and I think it goes back to the time I went to the circus, and a clown killed my dad.”
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#112016 - 03/19/08 12:05 PM
Re: Georgia Giants, should you buy them?
[Re: Bruce Condello]
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bz
Lunker
Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 737
Loc: Minnesota
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Ouch! But I don't blame you.
_________________________
Gotta get back to fishin!
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#112017 - 03/19/08 12:09 PM
Re: Georgia Giants should you buy them?
[Re: Bruce Condello]
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GW
Lunker
Registered: 04/08/07
Posts: 2218
Loc: GA
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I've heard you can buy Green Sunfish fingerlings intended for bait. 
C'mon Bruce, you know you want to. Or maybe you could join me in a FH/RES test...
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#112018 - 03/19/08 12:09 PM
Re: Georgia Giants Georgia Giants Georgia Giants...
[Re: bz]
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Bruce Condello
Lunker
Registered: 08/01/04
Posts: 6699
Loc: Midwest
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Any of you who've read most of my nearly 5,000 posts know that I've got about 1,000 informative posts, 1,000 question posts, 2,000 goofy playful posts, and this one is the only upset post.
_________________________
“To me, clowns aren't funny. In fact, they're kind of scary. I've wondered where this started and I think it goes back to the time I went to the circus, and a clown killed my dad.”
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#112019 - 03/19/08 12:10 PM
Re: Georgia Giants Georgia Giants Georgia Giants..
[Re: GW]
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Bruce Condello
Lunker
Registered: 08/01/04
Posts: 6699
Loc: Midwest
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#112031 - 03/19/08 01:28 PM
Re: Georgia Giants should you buy them?
[Re: Bruce Condello]
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Theo Gallus
Lunker
Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 11687
Loc: Central Ohio
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Bruce:
Was this a recent Georgia Giant shipment or a shipment of Georgia Giants made some time ago?
_________________________
 Non carborundum illegitimatus! (totus res in temperantia) 
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#112043 - 03/19/08 03:59 PM
Re: Georgia Giants, should you buy them?
[Re: Theo Gallus]
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NE Mason
Lunker
Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 71
Loc: New Hampshire
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Bruce, although I have not posted very much I've pretty actively monitored and enjoyed the benefits of your's and other's experience and advice here on Pondboss forum in building my own trout pond in New Hampshire.
But I felt compelled to respond to your above post, and speak to the "maybe I should not post this" observation you made.
Sometimes doing what is right doesn't feel good. But it needs to be done. I applaud and appreciate that you call attention to this bad situation.
Generally, PB Forums maintain communication standards that are all about positive and supportive posts, explanations, and encouragement. But at some points the community standards should extend to business ethics and standards, and violations thereof.
I feel like this post, and your own motivation in posting, is consistent with that spirit. Posts like these can be very, very valuable.
Best wishes from the frigid northeast.
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#112046 - 03/19/08 04:40 PM
Georgia Giants, Should I buy them?
[Re: NE Mason]
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Bruce Condello
Lunker
Registered: 08/01/04
Posts: 6699
Loc: Midwest
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These were the Georgia Giants that I had delivered in April, 2006.
_________________________
“To me, clowns aren't funny. In fact, they're kind of scary. I've wondered where this started and I think it goes back to the time I went to the circus, and a clown killed my dad.”
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#112047 - 03/19/08 04:42 PM
Re: Georgia Giants, Should you buy them?
[Re: Bruce Condello]
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Bruce Condello
Lunker
Registered: 08/01/04
Posts: 6699
Loc: Midwest
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NE Mason, thanks for the best wishes. It's been a little cold here as well. It was 55 degrees today and felt downright balmy.
_________________________
“To me, clowns aren't funny. In fact, they're kind of scary. I've wondered where this started and I think it goes back to the time I went to the circus, and a clown killed my dad.”
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#112048 - 03/19/08 04:49 PM
Re: Georgia Giants, Should you buy them?
[Re: Bruce Condello]
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Bruce Condello
Lunker
Registered: 08/01/04
Posts: 6699
Loc: Midwest
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It's a really strange concept that you could ever run a business where your reputation was irrelevant.
http://www.crappie.com/
_________________________
“To me, clowns aren't funny. In fact, they're kind of scary. I've wondered where this started and I think it goes back to the time I went to the circus, and a clown killed my dad.”
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#112049 - 03/19/08 04:55 PM
Re: Georgia Giants, should you buy them?
[Re: NE Mason]
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ewest
Lunker
Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 9059
Loc: Miss.
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NE and others. There is a historical context about the GG threads here. Very acrimonious within and amongst the Forum members. Same with respect to Ken Holyoke and his business activities. We try very hard to stay fair and balanced about such matters. After much debate Bob and the Forum leaders decided to stick to the science. We requested data which was promised but not delivered. We did outside research and found little. Some experiments are ongoing with mixed results. While we all have our own thoughts about the fish , that does not excuse bad business tactics. Others have reported similar situations as that by Bruce. Those are egregious matters that Bruce reported and should be opened to the light of day. Everyone should deal with that outfit at your own risk. All - be careful in reporting about other people or their business principles or lack thereof on an open forum. Liable and slander are still actionable (you could get sued) but truth is an absolute defense.
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#112050 - 03/19/08 05:04 PM
Re: Georgia Giants, should you buy them?
[Re: ewest]
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GW
Lunker
Registered: 04/08/07
Posts: 2218
Loc: GA
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I'm curious about delay in reporting this Bruce.
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#112051 - 03/19/08 05:06 PM
Re: Georgia Giants, should you buy them?
[Re: GW]
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Bruce Condello
Lunker
Registered: 08/01/04
Posts: 6699
Loc: Midwest
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The phone call just occurred today. This was supposed to be the month that we arranged delivery of the fish for the 2008 season. They blew me off over and over again last year and didn't return repeated phone calls, until it was too late for me to stock them. Then Deb King told me that they would take care of me in 2008.
_________________________
“To me, clowns aren't funny. In fact, they're kind of scary. I've wondered where this started and I think it goes back to the time I went to the circus, and a clown killed my dad.”
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#112054 - 03/19/08 05:40 PM
Re: Georgia Giants, should you buy them?
[Re: Bruce Condello]
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GW
Lunker
Registered: 04/08/07
Posts: 2218
Loc: GA
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Thanks for reporting this Bruce, especially because I live so close to them.
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#112055 - 03/19/08 05:44 PM
Re: Georgia Giants, should you buy them?
[Re: GW]
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Bruce Condello
Lunker
Registered: 08/01/04
Posts: 6699
Loc: Midwest
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Honestly the two things that bothered me the most.
1) The implication that I was lying. They even said that I never paid for the originals, and I'm sitting here with a cancelled check in my hand, and a copy of the personal message sent to me by Deb King stating that they would take care of the problem.
2) The fact that they felt they were doing me a favor by sending me some fingerlings for 250 dollars. It insulted my intelligence, and I suspect that they knew I would never do it.
It would be like if I placed a crown on somebody, and it failed, and then I told them that I would replace it, but it would take a series of forty appointments. Who's going to do that?
_________________________
“To me, clowns aren't funny. In fact, they're kind of scary. I've wondered where this started and I think it goes back to the time I went to the circus, and a clown killed my dad.”
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#112059 - 03/19/08 05:57 PM
Re: Georgia Giants, should you buy them?
[Re: Bruce Condello]
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Theo Gallus
Lunker
Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 11687
Loc: Central Ohio
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Sadly, Bruce, the fish business isn't the only place one can encounter those behaviors.
_________________________
Non carborundum illegitimatus! (totus res in temperantia)
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#112060 - 03/19/08 05:59 PM
Re: Georgia Giants, should you buy them?
[Re: Theo Gallus]
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GW
Lunker
Registered: 04/08/07
Posts: 2218
Loc: GA
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#112061 - 03/19/08 06:02 PM
Re: Georgia Giants, should you buy them?
[Re: Theo Gallus]
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Bruce Condello
Lunker
Registered: 08/01/04
Posts: 6699
Loc: Midwest
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Sadly, Bruce, the fish business isn't the only place one can encounter those behaviors.
Agreed.
The great irony in the situation is that I love big bluegill and panfish in general SO MUCH, that I honestly thought that I could raise these fish to giant proportions. Can you imagine the windfall of good business that they could have generated by simply treating me like a human being? Instead the lady acted like she hated my guts from the first moment of the conversation. She kept saying "What I'm offering you is...", then she'd repeat the part about the 250 bucks to ship these tiny fingerlings. C'mon now, couldn't they have maybe just charged me the actual cost? Maybe 100 bucks, or absorbed it themselves just for the good will? Geez, I'm such a pushover I probably would have paid half of the shipping, even though their so called "guarantee" of healthy delivery hadn't materialized.
I even told the lady that I had been excited to write an eventual article for a magazine about Georgia Giants, and that it would be hard to find a good way to end the story, but she yelled "You just go ahead, for every one person like you I've got ten people who love our product". I almost got the giggles after that.
Now that my ego has recovered from the original insults I'm not even really upset, but I think this thread should remain as a warning for others to step cautiously into a business relationship with any business that they don't know about personally or have first hand information on.
I think Deb King was a strength of this business, and now that she's gone maybe they are still in recovery mode. The lady I talked to didn't exactly sound like she knew how to handle a phone call.
_________________________
“To me, clowns aren't funny. In fact, they're kind of scary. I've wondered where this started and I think it goes back to the time I went to the circus, and a clown killed my dad.”
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#112062 - 03/19/08 06:56 PM
Re: Georgia Giants, should you buy them?
[Re: Bruce Condello]
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ewest
Lunker
Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 9059
Loc: Miss.
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Bruce that lady probably answers those type calls all day given the business practices !
Anyone want to guess what this is ?
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#112065 - 03/19/08 07:10 PM
Re: Georgia Giants, should you buy them?
[Re: Brettski]
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ewest
Lunker
Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 9059
Loc: Miss.
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Last I heard she was using her biology training in a different field. IMO she got tired of the people she worked for doing to her what was done to Bruce..
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#112070 - 03/19/08 07:33 PM
Re: Georgia Giants, should you buy them?
[Re: ewest]
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Bruce Condello
Lunker
Registered: 08/01/04
Posts: 6699
Loc: Midwest
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The lady on the phone blamed Deb for the problems and stated that they were "cleaning up a lot of the mess" that she had made. To me that was the saddest thing of all; smearing Deb's name just so they didn't have to live up to their guarantee. Shame on them. Deb was the best thing they had going for them.
_________________________
“To me, clowns aren't funny. In fact, they're kind of scary. I've wondered where this started and I think it goes back to the time I went to the circus, and a clown killed my dad.”
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#112072 - 03/19/08 08:00 PM
Re: Georgia Giants, should you buy them?
[Re: Bruce Condello]
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catmandoo
Lunker
Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 1216
Loc: Hampshire Co., WV
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More about Georgia Giants
_________________________
and, I've survived three Pond Boss conventions.
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#112074 - 03/19/08 08:11 PM
Re: Georgia Giants, should you buy them?
[Re: Bruce Condello]
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Sunil
Lunker
Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 5702
Loc: Somerset, PA
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Any reputable business owner or business person knows that bad news travels faster and further than good news.
The whole Pond Boss forum and the Georgia Giants introduction to the forum were not good in any way, shape, or form for Holyoke.
As honorable as Deb's efforts may have been, she could not feed the same baloney to the forum here that Holyoke fed to the unwary clients who knew no better. While I believe Deb wanted to give as much information to the forum as she could, I firmly believe she was not allowed to do so by Holyoke; more importantly, I don't think she really knew much about it herself. Best of luck to her in whatever she does.
_________________________
"...really explore the studio space this time!" 
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Moderator: Bill Cody, Theo Gallus, Bruce Condello, ewest, Dave Davidson1, Sunil, Chris Steelman
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